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Telinborn
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re: August Calendar Signups

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Hey RB!

I've added a few things to the calendar for early August to see what kind of response I get.  I want to add some context to what I put on there.

1.  I never know what real life might bring and I've always been one to be certain I can attend before signing up, so...I'm even more freaked out to be the one to put something on the schedule.  I'm typically available at the times I posted so I expect to be there, but I'll let you know if anything comes up and make up the run at the next convenient time.  Also, don't hesitate to ask if I'll join you if you see me online.  I've been doing a lot, lot, lot of grouping lately and it's been a blast.  I'm happy to help with whatever gear runs you might be looking for to supplement your featured instance runs.

2.  I have a few highly geared toons that I can bring to the various instances.  So I'll typically sign up my guardian, but I can comfortably switch to RK and cappy, maybe others if necessary.  If your main character is a guardian and you want to go, you should still sign up--I'll make room for you.

3. We're having a weird rash of not many minstrel signups.  We have some epic minstrels that are in high demand in both kin runs and across the server, which means they may not be available for each run.  If you have a bunch of toons and are wondering which you might gear up first to join us in raids and tough instances, minstrel might be a great choice.

4.  Don't be shy!  Ask for groups for whatever instances you need to gear up your toons.  Please feel free to respond to this thread or message/mail me in-game to give me an idea of what kind of runs you are looking to sign up for.  We have a very deep roster and getting the best gear for your characters is easy in Rare Breed.  You'll get some no's, but generally people are very generous with help.  I had turdball gear when I joined....it took a lot of help to get them decked out!!

See you in-game!  Have fun!

Kenny

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"We have a very deep roster and getting the best gear for your characters is easy in Rare Breed."

 

Can I address this for a second?  Setting RB aside, as this isn't about them, but how, exactly, is it easy to get the best gear?  And I'll be the first to admit I'm a casual player, but I'm open to learning and improving.

 

But let me point out that this past weekend,  I was in a 3-man run (Quays? BS? I can't remember) with other kinnies, and somebody pointed out that they had made that run 50 TIMES(!) w/o getting a 4-slot armor piece to drop.  One did drop on our run, so I jokingly pointed out that I was their good luck charm, heh.

And while I admire the patience of someone who will run something like that 50 times and basically not get Jack, there's something wrong with those metrics from the game's side (not the players' side), and I wonder how many of us have that kind of patience.

On the other side of the coin, is the 4-slot 105 armor the best gear, or is the more accessible 2-slot drops adequate?

Feedback is welcome.

Woods

 

 

Telinborn
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Hey Woods!

I guess my statement requires some qualification.  What I mean is that with the quality kinmates we have available, the instances that drop the best gear are easily completed.  BBS, Quays, and Silent Street can be completed and/or farmed until you get what you need.  Drop rates have been a frustration that I share with you.  I still feel like this is significantly more accessible than in the past where you had to complete T2C and/or raiding content to get the good stuff.

As to the quality difference of 2-slot versus 4-slot, I'll keep it short and maybe discuss more with you in-game if you like.  I think there is a big difference because the mitigation benefits from the 2-slot are better gained from the jewelry and essences.  The additional slots and the +10% damage bonus give a big boost to your damage output on DPS characters and give you more space to add morale on tanks and healers.  I would recommend no more than 2 pieces of 2-slot and somewhere between 2-6 pieces of the 4-slot.

All this being said, I'm only putting these ideas out to make sure that anyone who wants to is able to get geared in a way that allows them to be successful in raids and tier 2 instances.  I don't believe Rare Breed has ever dictated or emphasized how players should play or what they should do in-game, and I want to make it clear that I do not either.  I hope that you get a ton of enjoyment out of your game time, which you deserve!

I realize I haven't answered your question directly.  I think both parts of your question are at least partly true: yes, the 4-slot armour is better, and sorta yes, the 2-slot can be adequate if you do not have it.  I say sorta yes because I think that a raid full of people with nothing but 2-slot armour will probably fail at Throne, but if several people have some pieces in their build that's not a problem at all.  To fully contribute in a difficult (T2C or Throne) run, I think that the 4-slot should be the goal with maybe 2-4 pieces of osgiliath set armour if there is a great set bonus you can get for your class.

If it's a class I'm familiar with, I'd be happy to talk specifics in-game, or refer you to an expert of the class of your choice to check out their builds.  Once you decide what gear you would like, I believe RB can help you get it, even if Turbine makes the drop rates infuriatingly low.  I hope this is helpful!

See you soon!

Kenny

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I started a reply and forgot to post it... but Kenny's is longer, therefore better.

 

see?:

I feel like you can hit all the T2 suggested spots with a mixture of 100 essence gear and the FI jewels/gear... that being said I haven't tried to do so on a hunter, so I'm not sure, but my burg (agi:agi seems fair) would be good to go in that gear if he were ranged.

 

As far at the T1 drop rates for the 4 slot gear, it's certainly not easy to get unless you have some time to spend running them often. I've run them countless times and have received a total of 10 drops... BUT if someone has run quays 50x without receiving a drop, I'd call that a well lower than average drop rate. On the really plus side the small fellowship instances are relatively quick, I get through quays like Domino's, 20 minutes or less. So don't be discouraged, keep running when you can :)

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I'd like to piggyback on the 'gearing up' comments. It's a pretty steep curve to go from average joe PUG player to Tier 2 ready. I've just been through this with my Runekeeper. It's taken me 2 months now to get even close. There are so many little details. Beyond just armor and jewelry, it's also essences, legendary items, legacies, relics, traits, and virtues (not to mention scrolls of empowerment and star-lit crystals).

So what do I have to show after 2 months? I have all 6 pieces of the Featured Instance 2 slot armor and most of the 2 slot jewelry (outcast brethren) and a bunch of crafted gold T8 will essences. All of that for 25k morale and 60k+ mastery and nearly maxed out crit rating, mitigations, and legendary items.

What I don't have is any 4 slot armor.  I haven't run any of the Osgiliath or Pelennor 3 and 6 man stuff. I didn't because I felt like I had to gear up to this point just to be able to feel like I was eligible to run a 3-man or 6-man. So it's almost like you have to 'gear up' just so you can get to a place where you can get better stuff.

My point in mentioning this is that the path from being a casual schmuck to a RAIDer is not a short or an easy road. I have to say that for awhile this 'not being able to see the goal posts' threw me off. Gearing up is a long journey that involves making small improvements to a lot of different elements.

Unfortunately, what the casual player sees is often, "I want to do this instance" or "I want that piece of armor." What they likely don't see is everything mentioned above. I'd like to write more about how to get there, but that will have to be another post.

That said, I would like to throw in one complaint. Certain class combinations don't work well in 3-mans. While tanks and heals are always needed, with no AoE and no ranged attacks, nobody wants a burglar in a 3-man anything they can do can be done better by other classes. Not your fault, but unlikely that Turbine will fix it. The only reason I have any 4 slot gear on burglar is because it dropped on T1 in Silent Street (before they killed that option).

woodsmark
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Well said, Faldo.

 

For quite some time when the Pel instances came out, it seemed like only the T2C mode was dropping the 4-slot armor.  Now that armor is *occasionally* dropping in T1, so it gives us casual types some hope.  But it sure does require some patience and commitment, as others have pointed out, to run them over and over.  Not much different from most grinds, but as you also pointed out, there's more to the overall recipe.

 

And thanks to the rest of you who posted on this; it's been an excellent discussion, and I've learned a lot so far.

 

 

 

Hafwen Elfling
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I dunno about that. If you consider there are three tiers of play styles: casual, social, and hardcore (and everything in between). The casual player really has no need for anything more than teal or two slotted gear. The hard core are the only ones that need 4 slot. There is plenty of content for both levels. The 2 slotted drop off the daily. I've pilfered gear off two of my toons to outfit my main. Even with being away for a significant portion of the summer, she is coming along

When choosing a main it's important to go with a class you enjoy playing and one that groups will need/want. Every class has seen bumps in usefulness throughout the years. Dungeons and Draigoch you can't complete without a burg. These days a good mini is getting the love. If you are serious about grouping it's best to have two toons at level cap so you can outfit the best one for the new content. 

If they made it too easy we'd be bored within 2 weeks. 



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Relemoth
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Faldo!

I feel yer pain with 3 man composition... I have the same problem with both my captain and burg, but, I'd happily take a burg if I was tanking, or healing for that matter. Hit me up when you have time, and if I do, we'll do whatever to gear up your burg. 

Telinborn
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@ Faldo and kinda everyone in general:

I'd like to steal some things from Haf's and Rel's posts and use them to articulate my personal views.  Hafwen wrote about the various play styles and content tiers and how the gear plays into that.  Rel spoke of his openness to work with your burglar and probably other classes whenever.  

I've been a casual player, I enjoy being a social player and I enjoy being a hardcore player.  All of those are fun for me, and I think Rel shares this sentiment.  While there are classes that have benefited more than others in recent updates, I'm still happy to do gear runs with burglar DPS and include a spot for a good burglar in groups.  Yeah, maybe not steroid-induced fire-RK DPS, but still plenty to do most anything.

My personal goal within the kin is just to be approachable and available to kinmates of all play styles to help get the best gear available in order to open up new possibilities in gameplay for everyone.  I played casually and had my gear "good-enough" and then found myself in an opportunity to tank a T2C run for a couple kinmates.  After a few completions all of the sudden I started slowly getting great gear and asked a bunch of questions from great players in the kin about some details of my class and build.  Then, as Faldo explained, some time down the road I I was able to complete my builds.  Now I "casually" do T2C runs with similar players and I'm very open to helping others get the gear and experience they need to join us.

Kind of related but I'd like to explain another point.  Faldo talked about gearing up to get more gear and how it can be a long process.  That's certainly true.  On the other hand, I'd just like to offer that once you do run something enough to get the drops and slot those essences you worked so hard for, there is an end to the process (unless you're an altaholic like me).  Mercho has his minstrel geared to the teeth (he has a 4-slotted gold tooth with a +50% outgoing heal buff that sets his triumphant spirit cooldown to 5s), and now he enjoys joining whatever group interests him and having fun with friends while he piles up currencies.  When the last update came, he simply bartered for a bajillion scrolls and starlits and had his gear completely maxxed again.  He's not an example of a casual player, but my point is more that once you gear up for tough content, it helps sustain itself.  I'm getting morgul crests and ithil coins from tough content that are helping me keep my toons current.  So, hopefully just a dose of optimism that if you do choose to gear up there are nice periods of NOT having to gear up to enjoy and if you play casually it just takes a little more patience, but it always goes faster if you are able to complete more difficult content.

OK, now I'm actually going to play for a bit today.  And oh, sorry I use so many words and talk in circles and stuff.  Feel free to hit me up to chat in-game if I don't make sense so you can either talk sense into me or figure out what I tried to say.  

Have fun and see you soon!

Kenny

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I've enjoyed reading the comments. Thanks. I would like to add two things that surprised me.

The first is how much of a difference mastery can make (at least for combat). The amount of difference between 40k of mastery and 60k of mastery is HUGE. 80k is my target, but you can't just go all mastery and neglect morale, crit rating, finesse, etc. (sure anyone can get to 80k mastery but to get there with legitimate tier 2 stats in all the others is an entirely different matter!) [ I would love to see someone post how to get to 80k without 4 slot gear - suggestion for each class forum! ]

[ NOTE: the best way to get mastery is to use Tier 8 essences that correspond with your primary stat (Will, Agility, Might, whatever) ]

The second is how much of a difference imbuement and maxing legacies can make. I have to admit I was waiting on getting the perfect legendary before imbuing (of course it didn't help that I didn't have a clear idea of what the perfect legendary was) so I was somewhat late to the game as far as imbuement goes.

The other thing made me hesitate was thinking that I needed a first age legendary. Once I understood that a 3rd age was as good as a 1st age after imbuement I suddenly felt free to experiment at will. I have a feeling that many may be in the same boat as me, feeling like they have to have a first age. So for the sake of others let me repeat that when you fully upgrade your 3rd age it will be just as good as a first age (you'll just need a few more star-lit crystals and scrolls of empowerment to get there compared to a 1st age).

LOTRO is a game that is all about DPS (sadly). Mastery is one cornerstone of DPS and fully maxing imbued legacies is the other. Now that they have raised the levels on imbued weapons the gap between imbued and non-imbued is even bigger. The difference between an imbued and a non-imbued weapon are HUGE. The best thing you can do for your DPS is to imbue and max it out with star-lits and max your primary DPS legacies. For fire RK these are "Fire damage" and "Wrath of Flame Damage over Time" "Writ of Fire Damage" and "Essence of Flame Damage". Perhaps other can chime in on what they think is best for other classes.

NOTE: given the importance of mastery, using a legacy slot for your primary stat (Might, Will, Agility) is now very legitimate. I use a Will legacy for +200 Will on my RK.

Lastly, you'll want to add a legendary title and relics to both legendaries. But those are usually more about benefiting other stats and not so much about pure DPS.

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Imbuing and scrolling are a must for enjoying the game to its potential. I didn't know the dynamics with 3rd age vs 1st age though. Does it not max out at a certain amount of crystals until they add more levels?

DPS isn't necessarily the main goal per se. A burg, cappy and yellow line mini can make a group insanely killer if they are debuffing properly. An LM's stuns are key in some raids (unfortunately the AoE makes it hard work for them) and hunters are funny people (really they are). As a healer I have nothing to say about Champs except ./shakefist.

 

 



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Hafwen Elfling
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Just want to touch a little on what Kenny said too. I was getting frustrated with the drop rate so I stopped grouping for a little while and enjoyed the Bingo Boffin quest line. Collecting housing items is a hobby and is extremely rewarding. You are pretty much guaranteed to get quite a lot of the items even though some take longer than others.

That is all.

I miss air conditioning.

I really do.

But now the fridge and wine are right next to me.

 

 



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Dadi
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Hafwen Elfling wrote:

Imbuing and scrolling are a must for enjoying the game to its potential. I didn't know the dynamics with 3rd age vs 1st age though. Does it not max out at a certain amount of crystals until they add more levels?

DPS isn't necessarily the main goal per se. A burg, cappy and yellow line mini can make a group insanely killer if they are debuffing properly. An LM's stuns are key in some raids (unfortunately the AoE makes it hard work for them) and hunters are funny people (really they are). As a healer I have nothing to say about Champs except ./shakefist.

 

 

 A 1st and a 3rd age can be identical with the exception of the main stats (passives).  The diff is that a 3rd age requires more scrolls etc. to get there.

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